Progress on R(5). Will there be more?

 (I had a post a while back requesting people to submit open problems in Luca Trevisan's honor with deadline Oct 1. I am extending that to Oct 14, but that is a HARD deadline. See my original post which I have updated, here.)

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

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Breaking News: $R(5)\le 46$

I know this since 46 people have emailed me this link here.

(ADDED) Recall that $K_n$ is the complete graph on $n$ vertices which consists of $n$ vertices and every single pair of vertices has an edge.

Recall that R(5) is the least n such that 

For all 2-colorings of the edges of $K_n$ there is a set of 5 vertices such that all of the edges between them are the same color.

Here is a history of what is known about R(5). It is not complete. 

Proofs of points 1 and 2 below are on my slides here.

1) Let R(a,b) be the least n such that 

For all 2-colorings of the edges of K_n there is either a RED K_a or a BLUE K_b.

Note that

R(2,b)=b

R(a,2)=a

It is well known that R(3,3)=6.

Is it well known that $R(a,b)\le R(a,b-1)+R(a-1,b)$.

From this one can derive $R(5,5)=R(5)\le 70$

2) One can also show that if R(a,b-1) and R(a-1,b) are even then 

$R(a,b)\le R(a-1,b)+R(a,b-1)-1$.

From this one can derive $R(5,5)=R(5)\le 62$. 

3) In 1989 Exoo showed $R(5)\ge 43$. That is, Exoo gave a 2-coloring of $K_{42}$ with no monochromatic $K_5$. I was unable to find his paper online; however, there is a modern exposition of his paper here.

4) In 1997 McKay and Radzisowski showed $R(5)\le 49$.  The paper is here. This used some clever math  and lots of computer time. This paper also has a more complete history of R(5) up to 1997 then I have in this post. (Radzisowski also has a dynamic survey of small Ramsey numbers here.)

5) In 2017 Angelveit and McKay showed $R(5)\le 48$. This used some clever math of  and lots of computer time. The paper is here. That is the arxiv version. The journal version is behind a paywall; however, if you want to reference it and need to know journal etc, the link is here.

6) In 2024 Angelveit and McKay showed $R(5)\le 46$. This used some clever math and and a big computer search. The paper is here. (ADDED LATER - they used Glucose, a SAT Solver.)

COMMENTS ON ALL THIS

1) It is widely believed that R(5)=43. 

2) I have been asked if AI or SAT Solvers will help. I asked Radziowski and Angelveit and McKay and they all thought NO. There is just no way around ALL those possiblities. 

Lance: Getting 46 via an extensive computer search using "30 years of CPU time." Hard to believe AI and SAT Solvers won't play some role in future advances. 

Bill: Some problems are just really hard for SAT Solvers. Getting $R(5)\le 45$ may take 3000 years of CPU time. So it may not be for a while or ever. 

Bill: How about a wager? If R(5) =43 is proven by 2040 then you win, otherwise I win.

Lance: Let's make it an exact value for R(5). "Widely believed" doesn't always mean "true". What do we win?

Bill: Bragging rights! And the loser buys dinner.

(ADDED LATER- A commenter left a comment which probably means they want to ask the following:

Commenter: Since SAT Solvers did play a role in the new result, why are you skeptical that they won't play a role in getting further improvements, and perhaps finding R(5)?

Bill: Even with SAT Solvers, it is taking more and more time. Do you want in on the bet? If so then email me privately. 

)

3) IF there is some clever math that will help a lot then an AI or a Human may find it. But I am skeptical this will happen.

4) I am surprised the bound went from 48 to 46 without a paper about 47. 

5) Has any nice math come out of trying to find R(5) (and other concrete values)? 

a) YES- the work on R(k) for large k has lead to nice math.

b) NO- the results above on R(5), and the math for other concrete values has largely been clever and computer work, but nothing that generalizes that much. 

6) One of the Anonymous commenters pointed this out: here

LeetCode and AI

I often do LeetCode problems for fun. This site mainly provides short coding problems for students and others to train for the kinds of question that come up in technical job interviews. I use the site to keep up my programming skills and it often requires clever algorithms and data structures. The Daily Question is like a Wordle for recreational programmers. Try this problem which asks you to create a data structure for sets with insert, delete and get-random-element operations in expected constant amortized time.

I have to turn off GitHub Co-pilot, otherwise it will give you the solution before you even finish typing the function name. There are so many solutions to these problems out there and in the training sets for LLMs.

A student asked me last week why he should do LeetCode problems if AI can solve them all. I responded that doing the problems (and CS homework more importantly) give you the skills to understand code and algorithms and in your future jobs you'll encounter problems AI may not solve fully, or correctly, or efficiently and having those skills will allow you to solve those kinds of problems AI alone can't tackle.

But is this the right answer as AI continues to improve? Ideally we want to create students who transcend AI instead of being replaced by it. For that they need to fully understand programming and computing and be smart enough to know when and when not to outsource that skill to AI. That's the challenge for CS departments: teaching students how to use AI to make themselves better computer scientists without relying on it. It's a hard balance in a technology where we can't predict AI's capabilities at the time these students graduate.

I thought I knew what pizza was...

 On Page 75 of 

The Existential Theory of the Reals as a Complexity Class: A Compendium

by Marcus Schaefer, Jean Cardinal, Tillmann Mitzow

(see here for the paper) 

I came across the following definition:

a pizza is a mass distribution (measure) on $[0,1{]}^2$ that can be computed for polygonal subsets using arithmetic circuits.

Okay. Can I add green peppers and mushrooms?

There are many words in English that we use for math terms. How close are their English-meaning and their Math-meaning?

Greedy and Girth are pretty close.

Pizza, not so much. 

Forcing is a bit odd- when we do a forcing argument we are (say) creating a model of set theory where CH fails,  I don't think the model minds that, whereas, the term forcing in English usually means the person being forced does not like being forced.

Dynamic Programming sounds like the programmer is typing really fast.

Divide and Conquer- that matches pretty well.

Games.    There are some math papers about actual games people play. And there are also math papers that inspired Darling to say Math Games are NOT Fun Games!  I blogged about that a few times, mostly notably here.

Embracing the Future of Manufacturing

Last week I walked around the International Manufacturing Technology Show with 89,000 other participants at the McCormick Center in Chicago. I went to see how AI was affecting manufacturing and it wasn't quite the way I was expecting.

The sheer scale of physical machinery is overwhelming: from elaborate manufacturing equipment and numerous robots, to water jets performing precision cuts on metal. You also notice the international aspects--the big booths belonged to German, Japanese and Taiwanese companies, not so much American. US leads the world in many things, but manufacturing technology is not one of them.

There was one exception--the three big cloud providers: Google, Microsoft and AWS (Amazon). All, especially Microsoft, have dedicated cloud services for manufacturing. All were touting their AI services for manufacturing from predictive maintenance to Edge AI to generative AI diagnosing machine failures. It was less clear if the audience was listening.

When I walked around a Health Tech show last year, one could fee the focus on data and the excitement about AI even just a few months after ChatGPT went public. At IMTS the feeling was different. The most exciting "new technology" was allowing supervisors to get stats and adjust the machines remotely from the beach, offering retrofits to old machines to allow it to happen. One exhibitor showed me an app where a line worker could show a video to a distant supervisor to get some help (they need a new app for that?). I suggested that soon the supervisor could be replaced by AI in the app and they gave me a funny look.

The most interesting use of AI came from a small Oregon-based company Machine Research, which uses AI for small manufacturers to create bids from proposals. It's a small operations--just seven employees, basically only two developers working on the cloud. 

Like academia, the manufacturing industry is slow to change. Replacing old machines and products are expensive--you can't just do a software update. Both presidential candidates are pushing to increase manufacturing in the US but unless we can take advantage of our technical strengths, embracing the future and Industry 4.0, we'll find it hard to compete. Tariffs and financial incentives will only take us so far.

How will chatGPT affect Homework?

LANCE: I gave my final exam for my ugrad theory course (regular, Context Free, P, NP, Decidable, Undecidable) to the new ChatGPT o1 that claims to reason about math to see how it would do.

BILL: How did it do?

LANCE: Impressive--beat most of my students. Lets just say I could write a pretty good letter of recommendation.

BILL (arrogantly): I am a great problem maker, so this won't affect me. I ask problems in Grad Ramsey that ChatGPT would crash and burn on.

LANCE:  Okay big-shot, email me some HWs from Ramsey and we'll see how ChatGPT does on it.

BILL: Okay! 

[Bill emails Lance the first two HW assignments and prediction on how ChatGPT will do.

Bill predicts that it will do well on the standard problems, but crash and burn on unusual problems that (key!) are not on the web. Concepts that Bill invented just for his course. Bill is mostly correct in these predictions.]

LANCE: But how did Chatty do compared to the students who took the course?

BILL: About the same with one caveat: when ChatGPT gets something wrong its really weird- it has the look and feel of a proof but what it outputs is something no human would ever right. So it does badly on getting partial credit. And one other thing- asking it to do a proof A CERTAIN WAY or SIMILAR TO WHAT I DID IN CLASS it does badly on.

LANCE: I wonder if the same holds for Ramsey courses taught at other universities. Wait is there even any one else who teaches Ramsey theory?

BILL: Very funny. In your theory course I  assume students can't use ChatGPT on an exam so this is not really a problem. But for HW it might be a problem. It also brings up the analog of the question

do we allow students to use slide rules on an exam

LANCE: Slide rules? Your age is showing.

BILL: I am only 2 years older than you. Or is it 3? I forget these things.

LANCE: Yes, I would allow students to use ChatGPT as long as they acknowledge they did so, write up their own solution and take responsibility for any mistakes. Problem is they will just cut and past.

BILL: Lets break this down course-by-course

GRAD RAMSEY:  The students want to be there and are very good. My hope is that 

1) For standard problems they won't need ChatGPT

2) For unusual problems ChatGPT won't help. And I am good at making up unusual problems.

3) In any case, if they use it and they UNDERSTAND the answer and put it into their own words, I am okay with that.

HONORS DISCRETE MATH: Similar to Ramsey though I am a bit nervous.

UNDERGRAD THEORY  (similar to Lance's course): I would like to think its similar to Ramsey Theory.  However, I may be wrong.

ALL COURSES:

There is a more profound problem here that applies to all courses: the students may confuse getting the answer from ChatGPT with understanding. 

LANCE: ChatGPT is a hell of a lot better at solving problems than it was last week. Maybe ChatGPT won't help on the unusual problems today but that might not last for long. Perhaps the solution is to just give up on assessments and stop grading all together. Students can learn if they want to and waste their money if they don't.

BILL: That kind of change in how we educate is above my pay grade. You are a Dean, so it may be at your pay grade.

LANCE: Nope, even deans have their limits.

Natural Proofs is Not the Barrier You Think It Is

If there's a position where I differ from most other complexity theorists it's that I don't believe that natural proofs present a significant barrier to proving circuit results. I wrote about this before but I buried the lead and nobody noticed.

Let's review natural proofs. I'll give a very high-level description. Li-Yang Tan gives a good technical description or you could read the original Razborov-Rudich paper. A natural proof to prove lower bounds against a circuit class $\mathcal{C}$ consists of a collection $C_n$ of Boolean functions on $n$ inputs such that

1. No polynomial-size circuit family from $\mathcal{C}$ can compute an element of $C_n$ for large enough $n$. 
2. $C_n$ is a large fraction of all the function on $n$ inputs.
3. A large subset of $C_n$ is constructive--given the truth-table of a function, you can determine whether it sits in the subset in time polynomial in the length of the truth-table. Note: This is a different than the usual notion of "constructive proof". 

The natural proof theorem states that if all three conditions hold than you can break pseudorandom generators and one-way functions.

My problem is with the third property, constructivity. I haven't seen good reasons why a proof should be constructive. When I saw Rudich give an early talk on the paper, he both had to change the definition of constructivity (allowing subsets instead of requiring an algorithm for $C_n$ itself) and needed to give heavily modified proofs of old theorems to make them constructive. Nothing natural about it. Compare this to the often maligned relativization where most proofs in complexity relativize without any changes.

Even Razborov and Rudich acknowledge they don't have a good argument for constructivity.

We do not have any formal evidence for constructivity, but from experience it is plausible to say that we do not yet understand the mathematics of $C_n$ outside exponential time (as a function of $n$) well enough to use them effectively in a combinatorial style proof.

Let's call a proof semi-natural if conditions (1) and (2) hold. If you have a semi-natural proof you get the following implication. 

Constructivity $\Rightarrow$ One-way Functions Fail

In other words, you still get the lower bound, just with the caveat that if an algorithm exists for the property than an algorithm exists to break a one-way function. You still get the lower bound, but you are not breaking a one-way function, just showing that recognizing the proofs would be as hard as breaking one-way functions. An algorithm begets another algorithm. You don't have to determine constructivity either way to get the lower bound. 

Even if they aren't a great barrier to circuit lower bounds, natural proofs can be an interesting, if badly named, concept in their own right. For example the Carmosino-Impagliazzo-Kabanets-Kolokolova paper Learning Algorithms from Natural Proofs.

So if I don't believe in the barrier, why are circuit lower bounds hard? In recent years, we've seen the surprising power of neural nets which roughly correspond to the complexity class TC${}^0$, and we simply don't know how to prove lower bounds against powerful computational models. Blame our limited ability to understand computation, not a natural proof barrier that really isn't there.

Very few problems are in NP intersect coNP but not known to be in P. What to make of that?

Someone once told me:

 I was not surprised when Linear Programming was in P since it was already in $NP\cap coNP$, and problems in that intersection tend to be in P.

The same thing happened for PRIMALITY.

However FACTORING, viewed as the set 

$\{(n,m):\text{there is a factor of n that is }\le m\}$,

is in $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$.  Is that indicative that FACTORING is in P? I do not think so, though that's backwards-since I already don't think FACTORING is in P, I don't think being in the intersection is indicative of being in P.

Same for DISCRETE LOG, viewed as the set

$\{(g,b,y,p):\text{p prime, g is a gen mod p and }(\mathrm{\exists }x\le y)[g^x\equiv b(\mathrm{mod}p)]\}$ 

which is in $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$.

1) Sets in  $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$ but not known to be in P:

FACTORING- thought to not be in P, though number theory can surprise you.  

DISCRETE LOG-thought to not be in P, but again number theory...

PARITY GAMES-thought to not be in P. (See Lance's post on the theorem that PARITY GAMES are in Quasi-poly time see here.) 

Darn, only three that I know of. If  you know others, then let me know.

2) Candidates for sets in $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$ but not known to be in P:

Graph Isomorphism. Its in NP and its in co-AM. Under the standard derandomization assumptions GI is in AM=NP so then GI would be in $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$. Not known to be in P. Is it in P? I do not think there is a consensus on this. 

Darn, only one that I know of. If you know of others, then let me know, but make sure they are not in the third category below. 

3) Problems with an $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$ feel to them but not known to be in P.

A binary relation B(x,y) is in TFNP if,  B(x,y)\in P and, for all x there is a y such that

|y| is bounded by a poly in |x|

B(x,y) holds.

So these problems don't really fit into the set-framework of P and NP.

TFNP has the feel of $\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}\cap \mathrm{c}\mathrm{o}\mathrm{N}\mathrm{P}$.

Nash Eq is in TFNP and is not known to be in P, and indeed thought to not be in P. There are other problems in here as well, and some complexity classes, and some completeness results. But these problems are not sets so not in the intersection. (I will prob have a future post on those other classes.)

--------------------------

So what to make of this? Why are so few problems in the intersection? Does the intersection = P (I do not think so)?

---------------------------

I close with another quote: 

as a former recursion theorist I hope that  $NP\cap coNP$=P, but as someone whose credit card numbers are on the web, I hope not. 

Favorite Theorems: Parity Games

August Edition

A quasipolynomial-time algorithm for a long standing open problem. Yes, we have two of them this decade.

Deciding Parity Games in Quasi-polynomial Time

Cristian Calude, Sanjay Jain, Bakhadyr Khoussainov, Wei Li and Frank Stephan

I covered this theorem in 2017. In a parity game, Alice and Bob take turns walking along a directed graph with integer weights on the vertices and no sinks. Alice wins if the largest weight seen infinitely often is even. While it's not hard to show computing the winner sits in NP$\cap$co-NP and even UP$\cap$co-UP, the authors give the surprising result that you can determine the winner in near polynomial time.

The result has implications for modal logics, for example that model checking for the $\mu$-calculus can now be solved in quasipolynomial-time.

In follow-up work, Hugo Gimbert and Rasmus Ibsen-Jensen give a short proof of correctness of the parity games algorithm. Marcin Jurdziński and Ranko Lazić give an alternative algorithm that reduces the space complexity from quasipolynomial to nearly linear.

Six degrees of separation has been proven. Really?

There is a paper (see here for an article about the paper, the link to the paper itself is later) that claims to PROVE that, on average, the distance (for some definition of distance) between any two people is 6.

1) We've blogged about this kind of thing:

My Pope Number is 2

What is your Erdos Number?

The six degrees of VDW

2) The paper's link is here and in case link rot sets in, my copy of it is here.

3) The paper has 14 authors. AH- so that's why we are, on the average, 6 degrees apart- because papers have so many authors. (Actually papers in Biology  have LOTS more than 14.)

4) The paper defines a mathematical model for social networks and analyzes a persons cost and benefit of forming a connection. 

5) Is the mathematical model realistic? I think so. But its always tricky since empirical evidence already gave the answer of six. The true test of a mathematical model is to predict something we didn't already know. 

6) One thing about applying this to the real world: What is a connection? Friendship? (also hard to define), handshakes? I like the will respond to my emails metric, though that may leave out half of my colleagues and even some of my friends.

(How come people do not respond to important emails? Perhaps a topic for a later blog.) 

7) My Jeopardy number is 1 in two different ways:

a)  My co-author Erik Demaine was mentioned in a question on Jeopardy, see here and look at the 800 dollar question in Double Jeopardy, Category Boy Genius.

b) My cousin Adam Winkler's book, Gunfight,  was mentioned in a question Jeopardy, see here. It was a 400 dollar question.

In both cases the question was easy, hence my inside information did not give me an advantage. 

(Note: they were actually mentioned in an answer on Jeop since Jeop has that weird format where they give the answer and you need to find the question. For example:

Game show that has a format that Bill Gasarch thinks is stupid

What is Jeopardy?