tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post4768351755946333180..comments2024-03-27T19:58:17.387-05:00Comments on Computational Complexity: Should CCC2012 be at the North Pole?Lance Fortnowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06752030912874378610noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-22207877392709044732010-01-26T07:46:58.643-06:002010-01-26T07:46:58.643-06:00Maybe the next CCC should be held in Guantanamo, t...Maybe the next CCC should be held in Guantanamo, the paradise of the Human Rights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-7773606117324951392010-01-20T14:50:29.067-06:002010-01-20T14:50:29.067-06:00anona 7:25 @ anon 11:15:
the government will turn...anona 7:25 @ anon 11:15:<br /><br /><i>the government will turn to us, giving us leverage for discussion (if you dont change, we won't help you)</i><br /><br />Even after years of boycotting, people like Kim Jong-il, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin ets. will never call for scientific help. And the rest are not to be feared of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-73737687040905071342010-01-20T10:12:39.945-06:002010-01-20T10:12:39.945-06:00http://www.transparency.org ???
how reliable woul...<i>http://www.transparency.org ???<br /><br />how reliable would be a german (self-proclaimed reputable) company be whose main sponsors are exclusively mainland chinese.</i><br /><br />Where's your proof? Maybe you could add it to their Wikipedia page, as long as it's not original research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-53692544114638628132010-01-20T09:53:13.433-06:002010-01-20T09:53:13.433-06:00http://www.transparency.org ???
how reliable woul...http://www.transparency.org ???<br /><br />how reliable would be a german (self-proclaimed reputable) company be whose main sponsors are exclusively mainland chinese. <br /><br />not very. try again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-242818529934274992010-01-20T08:55:05.720-06:002010-01-20T08:55:05.720-06:00Corruption in Communist China? Let's see...acc...Corruption in Communist China? Let's see...according to this website, <br /><br />http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table<br /><br />it is ranked 79 out of the 180 countries studied, with 1 being the least corrupted. So, it is neither among the best nor among the worst. <br /><br />Maybe we should use this table to help us find a suitable conference location, or eliminate the unsuitable ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-85229606659093424582010-01-20T08:20:41.160-06:002010-01-20T08:20:41.160-06:00@6:23
Sorry, but I wasn't convinced that the C...@6:23<br /><i>Sorry, but I wasn't convinced that the Chinese government is so evil.</i><br /><br />While not "so" evil, certainly "evil and corrupt to an unprecedented degree."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-86815848522728873242010-01-20T06:58:28.771-06:002010-01-20T06:58:28.771-06:00nice one, aaron.nice one, aaron.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-87781927717623114592010-01-20T06:23:12.706-06:002010-01-20T06:23:12.706-06:00OK, Bill's post is a troll post, and I agree w...OK, Bill's post is a troll post, and I agree with the commenter saying this blog becomes ridiculous. Nevertheless, while we are at it, this is what I think:<br /><br />Sorry, but I wasn't convinced that the Chinese government is so evil. I claim that they are doing their best to stabilize, advance and feed their 1 billion population, by their standards. It's not my job or authority to judge countries I don't know well, based on, sometimes biased, media reports and unprofessional NGO's.<br /><br />The same with other countries. E.g., the US. Claiming that--by definition--launching a war is immoral has no ethical basis. I do not know of any sound ethical system, forbidding the use of force altogether. <br /><br />Third, even if these countries do violate some "human rights", I do not see this as a sufficient reason to boycott them. It depends on the proportion of violations, compared with the consequences of not doing so, for instance.<br />Seeing everything through the lenses of "human rights" is an unsound dogmatic view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-42391242505498824352010-01-20T01:23:30.372-06:002010-01-20T01:23:30.372-06:00W.r.t. #5: To protest Human Rights Violations in A...W.r.t. #5: <i>To protest Human Rights Violations in America [...] its not clear where you would decide to NOT have a conference. America is so large and diverse, and no one state or city did these things, that its not clear how you would express your outrage.</i><br /><br />It is obvious, but worth pointing out, that most countries seem more diverse to inhabitants than outsiders, and nowhere does any one state or city decide national policy. (You could boycott Washington D.C., I suppose?)biversenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-27637638606910000982010-01-19T23:15:38.484-06:002010-01-19T23:15:38.484-06:00@thinkingpost I totally agree. It's kind ironi...@thinkingpost I totally agree. It's kind ironic that our crypto research is at the end of the day used against us via this corrupt government. Even more ironic, we try to teach them state of the art techn and other methods, and in return we get backstabbed 80% of the time. <br /><br />Maybe a good way to resolve this problem without regrets is not to assist these countries. If they naturally progress and get to the level of sophistication where they can threaten our security, well, this is fair enough, at least no reason for regrets on our part that we actually assisted them in the backstab process.<br /><br /><br />@anona 7:25<br /><br /><i>Boycotting countries that have problems with human rights only worsens environment for people living in that countries, ..... </i><br />Not true, what in effect happens by attending these countries, we provide false hopes to the people and additionally subsidize the government more than the local people. If we boycott it completely, the government will turn to us, giving us leverage for discussion -- (if you dont change, we won't help you). Finally, this might lead to the cleanest things of all, "revolution" within that specific country! <br /><br /><br />@anon 10:14<br /><i> this blog is getting ridiculous.</i><br /><br />Quite the contrary, your comment is ridic and unreasonable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-11803537625467321422010-01-19T22:40:16.786-06:002010-01-19T22:40:16.786-06:00This post reminds me some post by Mihai years ago...This post reminds me some post by Mihai years ago worrying about his visiting China could increase the legitimacy of Chinese government. Now he has returned. Does the legitimacy of Chinese government increase or decrease? Anybody takes a guess?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-73990656816782436842010-01-19T22:14:21.617-06:002010-01-19T22:14:21.617-06:00this blog is getting ridiculous.this blog is getting ridiculous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-41142916032877125032010-01-19T22:09:11.328-06:002010-01-19T22:09:11.328-06:00Every year Lance, as the SIGACT chair, should iss...Every year Lance, as the SIGACT chair, should issue a world human right report ranking all the countries in the world and then we pick the top three country to have S/F/C.<br /><br />Come on, Guys, have a life!<br /><br />On the other hand, how easy to get a visa for outside people is a real issue here. If it is easy to get a visa to North Korea, I will support to have conference there. I heard that they have cheap hotels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-75737850660654676692010-01-19T19:39:55.986-06:002010-01-19T19:39:55.986-06:00Well then, it is settled. The comment section of ...Well then, it is settled. The comment section of Computational Complexity has determined that the United States has a worse human rights record than China. I guess the only remaining question is whether the US or Israel is the worst country in the world. But either answer to that question leads to contradiction. If you say Israel, then the US isn't the worst (which is absurd), but if it is the US, then Israel is not (which is equally absurd). Thus the worst country in the world can't be defined. Perhaps we will have to settle for a tie at the bottom. I hope I don't get arrested for writing this, but someone has to speak truth to power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-40438145777001454752010-01-19T19:25:46.972-06:002010-01-19T19:25:46.972-06:00Boycotting countries that have problems with human...Boycotting countries that have problems with human rights only worsens environment for people living in that countries, leaving them alone with an authoritarian government. Instead, openness and knowledge availability can change these peoples view of the world, research, education, life prospectives. There is more than enough isolation for these people already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-49409363764885354242010-01-19T19:20:03.944-06:002010-01-19T19:20:03.944-06:00It is interesting to seek what the later Wittgenst...It is interesting to seek what the later Wittgenstein called "a family resemblance" among GASARCH's various criteria. <br /><br />Fans of IAS history professor Jonathan Israel will recall his apt description of the then-radical principles of the early Enlightenment:<br /><br /><i>"Radical Enlightenment envisaged philosophical reason as the only guide in human life, sought to base theories about society on the principle of equality, and separated philosophy, science, and morality entirely from theology, grounding morality [...] on secular criteria alone and especially the principle of equality.</i> <br /><br /><i>Radical Enlightenment was further quintessentially deļ¬ned by its insistence on full freedom of thought, expression, and the press, and by identifying democracy as the best form of government.</i><br /><br />Regrettably, if we were to require that CCC---or any other meeting---be hosted only by radically enlightened nations ... then there would be no more academic meetings anywhere ... except maybe ... Denmark? ... the Netherlands? :)<br /><br />Perhaps it is more useful (IMHO) to reflect that "hunger, poverty, desperation, and chaos" have for centuries been the main enemies of enlightment, and to ask ourselves---upon an informal, individual basis---what contribution(s) that academic cultures like the CCC, can make to this struggle? A struggle that soberingly in the 21st century, will perhaps grow to be more desperate than in any previous century (given a planetary population heading toward 10^10)?<br /><br />This suggestion owes much to the Quakers, at whose meetings individuals are guided by ideals of individual conscience and fellowship. IMHO, no academic culture or profession can go far wrong, if its members are broadly mindful that it is always an option to follow this path.John Sidleshttp://www.mrfm.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-17849255233574707382010-01-19T17:27:17.144-06:002010-01-19T17:27:17.144-06:00My claim was only that inside the band of what is ...<i><br />My claim was only that inside the band of what is called human rights, China has a far worse record than the US.<br /></i><br />The number of people executed per year in China, while condemnable certainly, pales into insignificance compared to the number of people killed in wars launched by the US. While we might argue with the semantics about what constitutes "rightful and wrongful slaughter of human beings" it is absolutely clear that any reasonable definition of "human rights" cannot exclude the rights of those burnt to their horrible deaths by "daisy cutters".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-88926882466409204202010-01-19T17:04:09.365-06:002010-01-19T17:04:09.365-06:00It seems to the last anonymous commenter that kill...<i>It seems to the last anonymous commenter that killing many civilians during a meaningless war is not violation of human rights. And if it is, it is less dangerous than blocking certain part of internet (which is stupid and does not work, as anybody who watchs porn online in China will tell you ).</i><br /><br />You seem again to not distinguish between what may be moral or immoral, and what are human rights. If I were to cheat on my spouse, this would be immoral. But it would be silly to claim human rights are being violated.<br /><br />My claim was not that the actions of the US are morally better than those of China. My claim was only that inside the band of what is called human rights, China has a far worse record than the US.<br /><br />And your choice example for China is a bit unfair. How about the fact that China executes more people each year than the rest of the world combined, many for nonviolent crimes without due process. Or China's suppresion and colonization of Tibet? Or indiscriminantly firing into unarmed protestors? Etc.sgsgsgwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13406849759536438245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-67565708332122833512010-01-19T16:23:08.806-06:002010-01-19T16:23:08.806-06:00It seems to the last anonymous commenter that kill...It seems to the last anonymous commenter that killing many civilians during a meaningless war is not violation of human rights. And if it is, it is less dangerous than blocking certain part of internet (which is stupid and does not work, as anybody who watchs porn online in China will tell you ).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-82565242498935082782010-01-19T15:57:01.505-06:002010-01-19T15:57:01.505-06:00Surely, the US human rights record in recent years...<i>Surely, the US human rights record in recent years is far worse than anything that the Chinese govt could manage. In fact, I cannot think of any wars that China has undertaken in the last thirty years against a foreign country (the last against Vietnam was more than thirty years ago).</i><br /><br />You're redefining human rights to meet your political agenda. Engaging in war itself is not part of the standard usage of the term. (Of course, war can be waged in a way that violates the standard definition.) This is not to say the US has no human rights violations -- there are plenty. If you were comparing the US to, say, Denmark, I think you'd be justified in vilifying the US. But any US violations pale in comparison to those of China.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-70053994542058730272010-01-19T15:43:22.924-06:002010-01-19T15:43:22.924-06:00Hyatt Hotels in Boston fires 100 of their workers,...<i>Hyatt Hotels in Boston fires 100 of their workers, who are then known as The Hyatt 100. Should STOC/CCC not use their hotels for the 2010 STOC/CCC meetings? For this one there are other organizations boycotting so it may be effective to join it (I do not know what STOC/CCC are actually doing.) What if they reach a compromise that some of the workers are happy with and some are not? Then what do we do? Do we really want to get involved with the details of a labor negotiation? However, the orignial boycott might help get Hyatt to reverse their decision.</i><br /><br />While Hyatt may have made a sleazy business decision, I can't fathom how their decision could be a human rights violation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-87813246010024270182010-01-19T14:25:34.899-06:002010-01-19T14:25:34.899-06:00@bruno
It wasn't clear from the post, but the ...@bruno<br />It wasn't clear from the post, but the Zeilberger opinion was an April Fools joke. In it, he lauds the AMS for systematically removing all mention of Nazi mathematicians. I think it's safe to say that he was being ironic.Mark Reitblatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02844686872298320790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-42790974352204837632010-01-19T14:11:55.075-06:002010-01-19T14:11:55.075-06:00At least you included the 40 some states that vote...At least you included the 40 some states that voted against gay marriage in your boycott. But that is woefully inadequate. It should clearly also include any state that has elected a Republican to statewide office. What kind of message would we be sending if we went to a state that indifferent to evil? And most importantly, we must boycott Israel. On this there can be no debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-53946786551621041712010-01-19T13:36:35.845-06:002010-01-19T13:36:35.845-06:00China obviously enjoys violating human rights and ...<i>China obviously enjoys violating human rights and as such it should be on a ban list.</i><br /><br />While China can certainly improve its human rights record, it is not all evil. For example, it is still one of the few nations in the world that has never oppressed its Jewish settlers. If you use this as a criterion for evil, you'd have a long ban list that excludes oddly this one country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3722233.post-7326166573023493902010-01-19T13:13:10.416-06:002010-01-19T13:13:10.416-06:00thinkingpost said...
China obviously enjoys vio...thinkingpost said...<br /><br /><i> China obviously enjoys violating human rights and as such it should be on a ban list. In fact, any conference that is subsidized by a government which oppresses human rights should be placed on a "red flag list." <br /></i><br /><br />Surely, the US human rights record in recent years is far worse than anything that the Chinese govt could manage. In fact, I cannot think of any wars that China has undertaken in the last thirty years against a foreign country (the last against Vietnam was more than thirty years ago).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com